Setting the scene
Why do you think that everyone should care about mining?
GARGI
If you look around everything you use, if it’s not grown in the tree, it’s mined somewhere. It might be recycled, but it was mined first. That’s why it’s very important to pay attention to how it’s mined, what was the value it was giving back to the society, what was the process involved and who was impacted?
JANE
I’m with Gargi Mishra, a long-time expert in the mining industry. She specifically works on how emerging technologies and innovations can be transformed into actionable insights. Thank you for joining me. I think we’re going to have a lot of fun imagining the mining of the future. Could we start off with you saying a few words about yourself?
How did Gargi get into mining?
I’m Gargi. I come from mining industry. All my life I spent in mining. I started my career as an exploration geologist exploring for diamond. I started my career in India, then I work in Angola, DRC, Botswana, Canada for a diamond mining company. And then I did my PhD in geometallurgy. So it was further down in the mining value chain. And that was my first time when I was doing my geometallurgy PhD. I start seeing, it was dawn of the digital transformation in mining around 2009, ’10. When I start looking into digital transformation in mining, it was not as open as other industries are and that’s where adoption was not as fast as you see across banking or other industry. And then I start thinking and exploring how other industries innovate or digitalize. And then I came across system thinking, which is thinking about your process as a one system.
Mining and emerging technology trends
And mining even now is very siloed, so we work into silos. So then I start playing in that space, launched my first startup and start talking about system thinking in mining and designing digital transformation roadmap. And all these years, especially those 10 years, I was very much looking into mining and emerging technology trends, but always looking into operational environment. I start exploring what does emerging trends mean for the broader society. And then eventually De Beers hired me as their first resident futurist. And that’s why I call myself accidental futurist because even though from last 10 years I was tracking the trends very much for the mining, what does it mean for the mining, sustainability in mining operational focus, but I was actually, what I was doing was part of the foresight, horizon scanning. But then when I got the formal role of the resident futurist or foresight manager, I start looking beyond just mining operation because it was looking across. So first time now I start looking into consumer trends. What does the future of society look like? What is the future of consumer look like? How it’s going to impact the mining workforce after future? And then the broader geopolitical economical impact of that trends.
And I start enjoying that because that’s something I always call is my superpower to connect the dot between emerging trends and what’s coming our way and what does it mean for us. So since then I’m playing in that space. I also help contributed in a book for the foresight. It’s a textbook. One of the first in South Africa turned on a foresight as a textbook for the students. And that’s very much aligned to what I’m trying to do now is democratizing future thinking. Because if you look at Europe, Middle East, even US future thinking and foresight is very mature. In my part of the world it’s still emerging and at academic level we don’t have that much awareness about it. But the minute we start talking about industry 5.0, industry 5.0 for Africa is going to be different than what it means for the Europe where this whole technology actually started because of our relationship with human and machine is not just going to be same as you see in European economy because of the workforce requirement.
JANE
Well I have a question that for me is really important and that is why do you think that everyone should care about mining?
Why should everyone care about mining?
And that’s a very good question. But if you look around everything you use, if it’s not grown in the tree, it’s mined somewhere. It might be recycled, but it was mined first. That’s why it’s very important to pay attention to how it’s mined, what was the value it was giving back to the society, what was the process involved and who was impacted? And that’s where I start talking about the sustainability meets citizenship. That you need to start asking about was it circular, ethical, digitally transparent mining? And then also start thinking about how we give it back by responsibly recycling. The question won’t just be where was this mined, how did you help return value to the system? And that’s where sustainability meets citizenship and mining become part of material democracy, not just supply chain.
How can mining be more sustainable?
You say turning foresight into strategy. Do you mean into strategy about practical things that people can do that companies can do? How can mining be more sustainable?
GARGI
So that’s very interesting question and it’s actually very apt question to ask because whenever you think about mining, even if you ask a kid about mining, the first thing people think mining means taking a bigger drill machine and extracting just digging out of the ground and then just leaving a big hole behind. But if you see mining is not just about what you take, it’s also about what you leave behind, it’s your legacy, it’s impact on the ground, what kind of job you have created, how you leave the space sustainable for the incoming generation once you leave out the area and it always being part of the mining industry that how you do it and that’s called rehabilitation. But as the consumer and the young generation is getting more aware about sustainability plus the increasing compliance, there’s a very strong shift to not just managing when you are operating on the ground but also leaving behind once you leave the area. And then participation from the government and communities is increasingly increased in the same time than it used to be in past. So mining is all about sustainability now than ever before.
And it’s not just because of the regulation like I have to manage my carbon emission or my compliance because it’s required me to do it’s also changing the narrative and it’s getting increased demand. You will see if you see example a Botswana, now in Angola. It’s about getting very important who get to participate in the mine and who benefits from it and then who decides that who will come to the mine in your host country?
JANE
Are young people involved in mining from a practical point? Do they go to the mines?
GARGI
If you look at the literature and what we hear, it’s a very split view. So for example, yes, young generation don’t see mining industry in a very positive light because what they hear, what they see. And in that way, yes mining industry need to start telling their story better. And that’s one viewpoint you see across globally that everybody say young people are not attracted to the mining. But I do think it’s not always true for everyone. So if you look at global south, so for example Africa, even India where employment is a high priority, it’s still seen as a lucrative job opportunity. But yes, when they come to the job they are more sustainability driven, they ask more question, they like to associate themselves in it They demand right answer and they raise right question. But yes, talent shortage in mining is one of the biggest crisis because young generation don’t want to work in mining industry.
From compliance to co-creation
Yeah. I can imagine that. Yes. One thing you talk about is co-creation, the expectation of mining is changing from compliance to co-creation. What do you mean by co-creation?
GARGI
In past what used to happen, if your mining company go to a host nation, they will have some compliance to follow and there will be a bill that you have to do such a thing and that’s how your environmental compliance look like. This is how you’re going to employ people so labor compliance looks like. And then there will be some agreement that what you give back to the society or the country. But in the same time, especially Botswana is a very good example and one of my favorite examples I keep bringing is started negotiation differently. From the very beginning they were very intentional about when came to mining diamonds there. What does it going to mean for them once a mining company leaves the ground? And that model is now increasingly getting traction across the world, especially across Africa and that’s where the point of co-creation looks like.
How can governance and value be shared with local communities?
So then it’s not just a mining company but it’s a participatory role between the government and the mining company coming into the picture. But now the trend emerging where communities will start making more vocal voice. So if you look example of Canada and Australia, it’s very important to have that relationship with the native communities there and get to start working with them from the beginning. So for example, BHP has actually done indigenous land agreement in Australia where governance and value are shared from the beginning.
JANE
Can you explain what that means?
GARGI
So from the beginning they understand how the water uses will look like, which area are you going to mine and as you operate you rehabilitate. So those terms and conditions are pretty much governed from the beginning. It’s not that damage is done and now you come and paint and polish. So compliance is not just a tick box. You start creating those values and ethics from the communities. How the local people see the rehabilitation not just as a standard rehabilitation in terms of that used to be okay I planted some trees and I’m out. It’s more about consultation and dialogue, what you believe should be the ideal way to rehabilitate how we extract. And that’s why if you see globally there is a bigger drive to go underground mining where possible because we want … And that’s where the future of mining going to be.
Autonomous and semi-autonomous mining
Underground. You mean that the mining, the people go down under the ground and extract what they’re looking for.
GARGI
So that used to be in the past but now with advance in technology you don’t need human to go down. It’s machine.
JANE
Okay.
GARGI
And that’s why it’s autonomous mining.
JANE
Aha. So it’s done by machines. Okay. And that’s today, that’s not the future of mining. It’s happening today.
GARGI
No. No. It’s happening now. Minings are getting operated 2,500 kilometer away from a remote center, especially in Australia and Canada, even in DRC. There is actually a mine in DRC which is get operated from one town in South Africa. So they are remotely operated. You don’t need that many people on the ground that used to be. But then there’s another side of that coin. There are reasons to autonomous mining. One reason of course is safety because our old deposits are getting shallow and low grade, so cost of extracting them is expensive but also not safe to send that many people underground and there are more other safety concerns. So it makes sense to autonomous mine to have place. But then also there is skill shortage. For an economy like Canada and Australia, you don’t have people willing to work in the mining. So then that’s why autonomous mines comes into the picture.
But then when it comes to Africa or South Africa for example, we are still into operator assist or semi autonomous because of our economy you still need people to … Because mining industry still provides 20 to 30% job in the South African economy for example. So you can’t just replace the human because we do have enough human power, it’s just different economy. And that’s why when it comes to this part of the world, we are not really going for the autonomous mining, we are going for the operator assist. It means human and machine collaboration when it comes to mine. So still when it’s a dangerous situation a machine mine, but we still keep a lot of human in mine.
Women and the mining industry
And what about women in the mining industry? I never thought about that before. I never thought there were women in mining. So I guess I’m victim of a stereotype of mining is just for men. Can you tell us about women in mining? What do they do?
GARGI
Women do everything from drilling operator to drone operator. But interesting part is even though it’s 2025 women are still very underrepresented in mining industry. So for example in Canada and Australia it’s only 16 to 18% women still make up for the total women mining workforce. In South Africa is 19.8 percentage of the women which make … And when I say 19.8% across the business value chain. So you counting your cleaner, you counting your drillers, you’re counting your HR, finance department. But then if you look at the leadership role, it’s not that many women still you find there. And that’s why you saw my LinkedIn post about it. Women already are underrepresented in mining industry and it’s been traditionally because of the way industry was designed, the language it was used when you advertise the job and now if you bring the AI into the recruitment, the same AI either can be enabler for the inclusion and get more women into mining or it can be another barrier to entry.
JANE
It’s a problem in many industries. And most of the companies I’ve worked with over 20 – 25 years, women in leadership positions have always been in a minority whatever the industry is. Even some of the most possibly white collar industries you can imagine the majority of top leaders tend to be men. So it’s not just in mining, it’s a general situation I think
GARGI
It’s just in general in mining industry have less than 20% women. So for example, when I started my career I was one of the first women to go into the field. The field was not equipped to have a woman. So you are the only woman who visited the field camp. And for example, when I went to DRC, we actually have to plan … We have to have some system around it that if I go to bathroom, just plan something so everybody knows or I’ll take early morning or late night showers because they were not designed for that and that not just the camps, even the big mining sites. Even now if you look at the PPE of our protective clothing, it is still not designed for the woman body. It’s not just a design problem, it’s also safety issue. Because now if you put AI to a layer as a governance about and compliance about the safety, it actually struggles to identify with the woman with the mask or woman with the makeup or a woman with the hard hat. So those things are getting more complicated than ever already heard because our PPE is loose and then if the AI see it sees as a safety risk.
JANE
One thing you talked to me about was AI can be an opportunity, there can also be a risk in terms of inclusion. How does AI affect inclusion? Is that based on data studies that are done?
GARGI
Yes. So it’s of course based on the data studies. So for example, if I just buy a recruitment software and which was early days, now most companies are getting more aware, there’s very big drive one ethical AI and companies are getting more aware about inclusive AI. So of course there are people raising the question. But I think also it’s end of the day when you getting a software for you, you are getting for example a recruitment software. It’s also your responsibility to check what kind of data set it was trained on. So if you buy a software or you develop something in mining industry, and I’m just trying to create a parallel between what happened when Amazon first built its own recruitment AI model. It used to flag any association with a woman.
So for example, somebody has a CV says women leadership award or part of the women coding club, it used to flag them out. Or if you have a resume gap because three year you took a sabbatical to raise your raise your family, it won’t recognize that it’s a gap because it was a subconscious choice. And if you replicate that same model in the mining industry and you start building these recruitment model based on what is our current demographic look like, 18%, 16% women and most of them at middle to lower job level, it’ll never be able to recommend a woman to the leadership role or it will not able to identify the potential if there’s a gap or if they move from one area to another part of the business.
But then another part where AI, it can start copy pasting the same type of job at work and it’s like you use ChatGPT but you haven’t trained it on that. And the biggest reason why women are so less in mining industry, especially mine site roles are because traditionally that way job description was, it was designed very know masculinity coded language. Drive under pressure, rugged situation, all those words which even though women are capable, it will not resonate with them. So sometime women won’t even apply when they see a field job or a mine site job [inaudible 00:17 :32]. And if you trained it, the same AI can be actually be an enabler and create that inclusive job advert which attract everyone. That’s why I say it’s a risk but also enable how you apply it. But you have to be mindful. You can’t just get a blanket. Can’t just buy something and implement in your space. You need to understand where that are coming from.
JANE
You said the mine of the future may look more like a lab or bioreactor than a pit.
GARGI
Yes.
The mine of the future will look like a bio lab
So the mine of the future can look like a lab. That makes me think of something I’ve read a little bit about which is diamonds that are produced in the lab. But in fact you’re not talking specifically about that. You’re talking about a variety of different minerals and substances that are produced in a lab. Is that right?
GARGI
So there’s a difference. So when we talk about lab grown diamond, that’s the diamond created in the lab. But when I’m talking about the future of the mine is more like a bio lab. I’m talking about processing. So we are still having a natural copper, but in place of using the chemical to leach it out, you are using the bacteria to leach. So then it’s more environment friendly. And there are already companies doing that. So for example in Chile, Biosigma already have achieved copper extraction using the microbiomes. And these is another startups coming very strong on that. So there’s not that the small care companies are coming in that space where you … So bio leaching is not a new concept but with applying AI, so finding out the right bacteria becomes easy and that’s why now this is the right time and that’s why you start seeing multiple companies or a startup coming in that space where the bio leaching is now you can do at a scale. Earlier it was academic concept but now it has becoming a reality. So that’s why I say the future lab will be more like a lab or bioreactor.
JANE
Yeah. That’s very interesting. What’s your vision in general of the mine of the future? You talk about it being participatory, smart, resource partnership. I’m quoting from one of your sentences. Can you explain a little bit what you’re thinking and what do you mean by future? What timeframe are you thinking?
GARGI
So that’s very interesting because I always throw this question when I’m teaching future thinking, when that you think future arrive? So in a professional way we say future 10 year, 15 year time. But I know when you and me spoke I says let’s say 2050. But then I also wanted to throw something like are we still going to mine in 2050 or if we going to mine, are we going to mine on this planet earth? But look at the critical minerals demand, the trend currently right now where we’re sitting looks like the reality that yes we will still be mining. May not be the same skill we mining now, but we still be mining on this earth. But definitely it’s going to change. It will be more smaller in the size in operation, not going to have huge operation and it will be few companies but then it’ll be very smart. When I say smart, it’s data driven mining.
Mining already is very smart because as I said, autonomous mining is already a reality but it will be much more data driven in terms of how you do exploration, where you do exploration. So it will be smarter across the value chain, not just in the operation environment. And regenerative. So it means very much circularity driven. And that’s the reason I do believe will be coming and co owned. It means it not just be a mining company. It’s going to be between mining and government or other committees. So it will be like the Debswana model where it’ll be not just a mining company owning the mine site. And taking responsibility. So from exploration to the processing and selling, it will be co-owned the whole process, not just the end product. But if you ask me my vision, I do believe the mine of the future will be invisible to the eye, embedded underground, powered by automation.
Changes in the relationship between mines and society
It’ll be co-governed with communities restored ecosystem as it operates and follow circular principle when mine is the last resort but not the starting point. And I like to have this vision and I do talk about it a lot. Because if you look at the young generation, how they ask the question and that’s why there’s increased amount of traceability. In fact, EU digital product passport was launched a few years back and it was across the luxury products and the food so that you can trace where your product is coming from. And I think that’s going to be very much part of the mining also so that when you buying a iPhone you’re not just asking where it’s mined, it will be a reverse also that how you have responsibly discarded it once you finish your product. So I do think that it will going to be very participatory, not in the way we mine, but how the relationship between the mine and the society going to change.
So for example, if I’m going to buy something, it’s not just you can go and buy a material. It will be how you earn access to buy them based on your own behavior towards circularity, how you recycle, let go. And it might be just a point driven system designed by authorities so that if I’m responsible … And this is the scenario that if I recycle something responsibly, I might get some carbon credit so that my buying a phone can be cheaper or a car will be cheaper than somebody who’s not doing it. So you’re just creating that participatory economy where it’s not just how it was mined but then how you return as a consumer that value to the system so that it becomes circular. So that’s what I think will be the future, not necessarily all these things. And that’s why it’s called future because you can’t predict it, but the way the young generation think, the coming trend and then also the emerging trend about partnership amongst mining companies and government and how they are driving that whole negotiation, that’s where it look like it’s going to.
JANE
You seem very positive about the future. That was one of my future questions I wanted to ask you is globally, independently of the mining industry, even though I’m interested in that specifically, would you put yourself very positive about the future, negative or in the middle? Where would you place yourself?
The young generation asking the right questions
I think I’m very positive about it. And reason being when I look at the young generation, that generation alpha that just is still in kindergarten or even the high school kids, this generation was born in this time in last five to 10 year time. They are born in a very unstable environment and you see it was one of the most complicated time of our times because they have seen the COVID, they have seen war all around them, geopolitical instability, supply chain disruption. And then on top of that the dawn of this new technology. But because they’re born in this complex world, they somehow tend to have a better understanding of the interdependency of these things. So when they see things, they don’t see them in isolation, compared to the past generation. So for us, everything is an event and then when you start maturing, you start connecting the dots, but these kids are born in that environment where they see the relationship with each of these event, they are happening in their life and they always ask the right question even though they are having a complex and unstable time, they still care for the planet.
What does it mean for me, my future, sustainability of the earth? So I do believe when these generation go and become the leader of the tomorrow, they will have much better system thinking mindset because they understand how things coming and very good for mining industry also because that’s what we need. Mining cannot be just hosted in a nation, but what is the relationship with it? So they understand that you can’t work in isolation. But then also very brave to ask the question. Even a 3-year-old and 5-year-old, how they have that confidence and bravity to ask the question about future of ocean, future of sustainability. And they ask the right question and they demand the right answer. And that’s why when I look at them I feel very positive. Because this is the generation that going to be leading the world.
AI sustainability framework
Yes. How do you see your own personal future evolving over the next, I don’t know, 15, 20 years?
GARGI
That’s very interesting because if you see my career, I always pivoted, always something new, something different. But now I do think where I am right now, there are three areas I think I would like to continue and I see myself making impact will be of course, especially in AI is coming into the women space and mining space. But not just women and inclusivity. I do believe there is a very big gap to understand what does it mean for sustainability. So yes, AI is a very big enabler for sustainability because you can apply AI technology, climate technology to track your emission, control your emission, but then also the cost of all these big AI models and somebody need to drive that dialogue. So I’m trying to start playing in that space and I think in five to 10 year, 20 year time, I will be able to raise those questions and drive that impact where we’ll have … I call it an AI sustainability framework, which will be like a mandatory to have that if you’re designing and bringing a AI system, you should have a framework aligned to it.
And then also value for inclusion. That link to very much most of the work I have done in this whole transformation. How you bring in new technology and develop a business case. But most importantly, I think the biggest impact I hope to leave in 10 to 12 year time will be move away from this quarter to quarter thinking so that we’re not just thinking in a short term profit and loss model, but thinking about in long-term thinking. And I think that’s the power of future thinking. Thinking about what does it mean for this technology and this process in 10 year time and how it’s aligned with the emerging trends. So I think that’s where of course I see myself making an impact. And of course love to play into teaching an academic space, so I might be teaching future thinking somewhere in 20 years time.
But funny enough when you asked me that question because it’s definitely going to change. So for example, if I say what I’m doing now is a foresight work, definitely going to evolve a lot. I actually gave example to my previous job where I was a kimberlite petrologist and you see a microscope behind me in one of the shelves. But that job is totally taken over by AI model right now. So same thing for the foresight. Most of it work will be already start seeing it. So for example, when I’m doing, a lot of my work, AI is a co-assist or like an intern right now. But I do believe a lot of these thinking and most of the analysis of the data and research will be outsourced to the AI. But then the bigger thinking, so what will still be hands of human. So it’s going to be collaborative foresight role than just having a human in the room and deciding.
The important principle of circular mining
Gargi, do you have any last thoughts, any last message that you’d like to share? Have we covered everything that’s important to you or anything that’s missing?
GARGI
So because of the foresight, I always trend emerging technology. So for me the biggest technology globally for the society as a society is going to be biotechnology and then quantum and circularity, especially when it comes to the mining environment. Here’s AI going to make the impact, but then how are we actually going to mine and how we actually going to process and how we going to have the relationship with the communities we operate that will be very much driven by the biotechnology emerging. So that’s why I talk about etching plant rather than a chemical plant to process. And then quantum definitely AI is already making a bigger impact on exploration are a lot of companies. There’s example of Cobalt, which is helping mining companies to find the new deposit. Our industry is very data rich industry, but then quantum going to help to process it faster and then cost is going to reduce.
And then of course the principle of circular mining. As the people are getting more aware, communities are coming together with the mining company is going to be very important. So those are I call three frontiers for the mining industry. But then of course blockchain and AI will play very important role in the process to make it all enabler. So I think that in the future the question won’t just be, where was it mined, but it’ll be how did you help to return the value as a consumer as well. And I call it a citizen partnership with the mining interest or material democracy. It’s like sustainability meets citizenship and that’s very important. It has to be participatory.
JANE
Yes. I’ve really enjoyed hearing these insights into an industry I know very little about. You’ve now made me a lot more interested in mining as it is today. I didn’t realize how advanced it was and of course what it’ll be in the future.
GARGI
Thank you very much. Thanks.
JANE
Thank you very much.
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